Episode 9 Transcript: Make Climate Action Easy: Have a Pool Party!

Molly Wood:
Hello, and welcome to Everybody in the Pool, the podcast for the climate economy … where we dive deep into the climate crisis … and come up with solutions.

I'm your host, Molly Wood.

This week, we're just gonna have some fun.

See … people have to come to the climate conversation in their own way …

Sometimes it’s hard to find a way in when all you see is nightmare stories about impending crop failure and hottest days ever and then the next day is also the hottest day ever …

And maybe you feel like you just don’t even know where to start …

And you need to take the pressure off … and play. And that’s where my guest this week comes in.

Jenny Gottstein:
My name is Jenny Gottstein. I'm the creator of Beat That Heat, the Climate Action Game Show.

Molly Wood:
I know … this is where we SHOULD go to holy crap who are you how do you create a game show what is your origin story because you know I love an origin story but I stayed on message! I had to know about the game!

Jenny Gottstein:
The game show is, it was designed to answer the question, can we make learning about climate solutions can we make getting engaged in climate action fun? or very least less overwhelming and sometimes, paralyzing. 

So it was born out of that idea and now it is a, it's alive. It's a full it's a full one hour experience with different, um, game show like missions. kind of like if Jeopardy celebrity, lip Sync Battle and Double Dare from the nineties specifically all came together to address climate change.

Molly Wood:
Oh my God, I want to play this game immediately. How do people get to play it? Where do you find this game?

Jenny Gottstein:
Well, we built it on a platform that is a browser-based game, so all you need is a browser and headphones and, uh, the game itself can be played fully remote. It can be played with an in-person audience, and it can also be played hybrid. So you can have a couple hundred people in a audience, and then you can have a couple thousand people playing remotely and people can compete against each other.

Molly Wood:
That is so awesome. All right, now let's go to the origin story. What got, what gave you the idea for this? How did you, and how does, how does one go about designing a game?

Jenny Gottstein:
Gosh, how far back do we need to go? Let's go to, uh, two years ago I was working for a design company called IDEO. I was working specifically in their play lab, so I got to help companies, organizations, and government agencies understand how to incorporate play and fun and delight game mechanics in order to be more impactful in their efforts, be it around transportation policy, financial fluency, et cetera.

And I loved it. It was great fun. Prior to there, I was working at a company that designed interactive adventure games around the world. It was called The Go Game. So I got to be the game, uh, the game sourcer, I guess, running around the world, designing adventures, kind of like the Amazing Race meets the game with Michael Douglas and Sean Penn with clues hidden in the physical environment and actors as secret agents.

All in service of getting people to create funny content that they then compete with, some people walk away with goofy prizes. So, over the last 15 years of my career, the common thread is that I love making serious things and taking fun very seriously.

Molly Wood:
Love it. Love it.

Jenny Gottstein:
Yeah, that's my, that's how I kind of organize all of my thoughts, like, how can we make something that's normally not fun, more fun? And how can we take fun extremely seriously because it's so important.

So I decided to leave my job two years ago to take a break. I had been so busy teaching other people how to make fun and understand how important fun is in getting serious work done that I myself was not having as much fun as I wanted to. So I decided to pause, some time to rest, and in that moment, I joined a cohort. That was of artists, experience, designers, and climate experts. 

This cohort was called the Design Science Studio, and the intention of gathering these people for eight months was to collaborate on projects that increase engagement around climate.

And I decided during that time to dust off this old idea that I'd had this sentence that had popped into my brain years ago: Climate action game show. Didn't know what that looked like, what that even meant, but it just made me laugh like, is that even, could that even be a thing? And I thought,

Molly Wood:
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Gottstein:
Now's the time to try to make it and see what happens.

So originally, I made the first prototype selfishly for myself and for my community. You know, this was, again, I was on sabbatical, I was goofing off, and all I wanted to do was gather my favorite people and have more fun talking about the things that I cared about. And it turns out that you can make conversations around climate really fun, like really, really fun.

Molly Wood:
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Gottstein:
That was the aha from the early prototype. And after that point, it kind of started taking on a life of its own. Debuted it at a festival in New York, which really lit the fire under my butt to build it out. With the visual design and the sound design, we had a musical curator. We had prizes, surprises, all sorts of wacky fun moments like cake relays and props and sound effects.

And was the first time that we ran the game for an audience of people that did not know me, that weren't my immediate friends and peers. And they also loved it. So that was the indicator that hey, actually we might be onto something. Now, as this game was starting to take shape, folks started to approach me saying, oh, I hear you're working on this.

This would actually be really useful in my organization, at my company, because we have a climate commitment that we're trying to organize ourselves around, and we all need to get on the same page as to what all of this stuff means. Or quite simply, folks wanted a little bit of levity in their climate conversations, an opportunity to take a break and laugh and connect and joy in community to those long-term conversations and actions.

So at that point, that's when I went back to my former employers at the Go Game and I said, look, I've got this game. It's a hoot, nanny. People want it. Right now I'm running it through a combination of different tools and a lot of enthusiasm and like duct tape. But you have an amazing platform.

Can we build a version of this game on your platform so that we can run this at scale, we can customize these games with greater frequency, and we can reach more people with this content? And they were, they were great. They were like, come on in. So we built the game on their amazing platform. It's called Weave, spelled w e v e. 

And that's what makes it possible for the remote in-person and hybrid audiences. Prior to that, we were doing kind of a hodgepodge of tools. But now that it's on Weave, it's a whole new experience. And voila, we have ourselves a game show.

Molly Wood:
Amazing. Tell me how it works. What is the process of the game, and it celebrates climate action. Right? Talk to me about how the game works and what the solutions built in are.

Jenny Gottstein:
Totally. So it's an hour-long experience. We've made versions that are shorter and longer, but for the most part, it's nice. It's like a 50-minute experience, and it's divided into four rounds. Round one is called Feeling the Feels, and really it grounds the entire experience in climate psychology, which we know now is so important to address the complicated feelings we have around climate first before we can engage in action in the long term. So we start first feeling the feels.

Molly Wood:
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Gottstein:
Then round two is understanding the solutions, and this is where all of the technical information comes into play. Be it around drawdown or scope emissions, or whatever information the audience needs to learn in order to engage in rounds three and four.

Round three is celebrating the wins, so each challenge highlights or amplifies a different climate victory that has already happened because of awesome people doing awesome work together. And then round four is taking action, where the players can see not only how they can take action, but it culminates in a brainstorm where they can start to come up with the ideas that they're the most excited about because the theory of change behind all of this is that first of all, not only do we need all hands on deck, we need everyone to bring their unique skills and passions and curiosities to the table.

So the game culminates in prompting players to think about what that looks like for them.

So, I made that sound like a very dry arc. You have to believe me that it's actually quite fun to get from feelings to action. But we set up the arc in that way, we found it set people up for success. Rounds one and four are designed to be fairly stable. 

Rounds two and three are designed to be modular so you can switch out the content in the solutions round and in the wins round to feature either areas of climate solutions or different communities that are doing incredible things so that depending on who your audience is, it really resonates with them. So each game can be slightly different depending on who is playing and what the desired outcomes are.

Molly Wood:
And so who is the target audience for a game like this? I would imagine it's people who are somewhat climate curious already.

Jenny Gottstein:
Mm-hmm. This is designed for the climate curious who are dipping their toes but may not feel like they have deep expertise. Often, folks who are on the sidelines around climate are feeling held back because, like I said, the complicated feelings that come around climate, but then also it can feel, it can be easy to feel shame around what we don't know or what we think we're not doing, and so this game is designed to make it accessible and fun to dip your toes in the pool so that you feel more confident in taking a stand.

We have done a version of this game for climate experts, but the content tends to be geared towards folks who are looking for kind of a baseline before they dive in. It's also designed for top emitting populations. The content is geared in that direction.

Molly Wood:
Mm-hmm.

Jenny Gottstein:
For folks who are not disproportionately contributing to the climate crisis, this game isn't necessarily designed for them and their realities. It's designed for folks who are living predominantly in the United States and Europe and understanding how our kind of normal is contributing to these larger issues and how we can start to change our systems in order to address the crisis.

Molly Wood:
Ok … time for a quick break … before we do that … let’s hear a little taste of Beat! That! Heat! … shall we?

[Ad break]

Molly Wood:
Welcome back to Everybody in the Pool. We're talking with Jenny Gottstein about her climate action game show, Beat! That! Heat! Just a little more … but not too much … because we don’t want to spoil it …

[GAME SOUNDS]

Ok … now to the actual solutions you’ll find as part of the game … and how play turns into impact.

Molly Wood:
So give me some examples, if you could, of the types of actions and solutions that might be celebrated. Is it like flying less or, you know, how do you keep up on them?

Jenny Gottstein:
So I mentioned at the beginning shame. Shame is a really powerful and it can slow down action quicker than really anything else. So it's really important that this game is designed not to single out or dial up individual shame, and instead focus on collective wins. 

When we're talking about the solutions, we're talking about types of industries or areas that people can plug into, be it retrofitting infrastructure, be it renewable agriculture, or excuse me, renewable energy, regenerative agriculture.

We do talk about individual actions that people can take, like composting more or reducing unnecessary shipping and packaging. But we really drive home in the course of the game that climate change is not an individual problem. It is a systemic problem, and so it's less helpful for us to be shaming ourselves for how little we're recycling. And it's more important for us to be uplifting the kinds of solutions that help change the system so that we don't have to recycle in the first place because products and systems are designed for circularity.

Molly Wood:
Right.

Jenny Gottstein:
In the solutions round, we're talking about basic climate vocabulary and helping people get a grasp on what that means. So, for example, we liken carbon metric tons to yaks, to the weight of a wild yak. And then at that point on, every time that we talk about carbon in the atmosphere, we're talking about it in terms of yaks and how we're trying to keep yaks from floating up into the sky. So the solutions round is designed to make these a little more tangible.

Then in the wins round, that's featuring things like, for example, you probably know this, but I realize a lot of people, I myself didn't, and I learned it in the last couple of years and was flabbergasted, how the ozone actually in the process of healing itself. I don't know about you, but in the eighties and nineties, that was a real terror, you know, that we were losing the ozone layer and everyone was rightfully distressed about it. And then it's like we stopped talking about it. 

Well, as it turns out in the eighties, you had a bunch of policymakers and scientists coming together and identifying the source of the problem, aerosols, like the ones found in manufacturing and hairspray, they were able to get countries to ban using those very specific products. And now we're at a point years later where we're realizing that the ozone is healing itself. It's gonna be fixed in the next 43 years at this rate. 

And that was because of global collaboration that happened in the eighties. Well, a lot of people don't know all of that backstory and are quite inspired when they learn it.

So one of the missions that we have in the game is around celebrating the ozone recovery, and then encouraging people to up points by filming their favorite victory dance to that epic climate victory. I should point out that this game is not just oriented for extroverts. Introverts like myself are well represented. 

There are also missions like Pictionary, memory matching games, word puzzle searches, funny memes, and name that tune. So there are a lot of different ways that players can rack up points for their team, catering to a lot of different skillsets.

Molly Wood:
It's so delightful and I love the idea of conceiving this as a game. And it also sounds to me like, and I hate to find this surprising, but I do, but it sounds to me like people bought into this idea when you started pitching it, which I wouldn't have necessarily thought was an obvious pitch. Like certainly as a journalist, when I was pitching climate stories, many editors tend to think of it as the vegetables of coverage, for example.

Jenny Gottstein:
Yeah.

Molly Wood:
But it sounds like you didn't run into that. People are like, yeah, let's do it. It's fun.

Jenny Gottstein:
Apparently people have the same reaction to the words climate action game show that I did, which was what? Is this? And just curiosity. I think there's a hunger for infusing these conversations in this space with joy and delight. And so the minute that you offer that as an option, I haven't had to hard pitch anybody. It's just, hey, we're doing this thing, come along. 

And the support has been so I think it's an indicator that if we can figure out ways to ground these actions, these behavior changes, these ideas, these conversations in connection and joy, we're going to see greater engagement. And I want to be really clear and say that it's important when designing for joy and play and fun in spaces such as this, that you're not also diminishing the importance, the severity, the, the how, how traumatic this experience is for so many people. And it's more traumatic for some than others.

And so it's a very fine line to walk to make sure that you're not trivializing an experience that is inconceivable and unprecedented. But there are ways to ground in our conversations in humor in a way that feels inclusive versus alienating. 

And that's what we've been playing around with here and, and learning over the past two years of what really works and what doesn't.

I'll tell you a time when we failed, and it goes back to that idea of shame. We had a mission in the game that was called Two Truths in a Climate Lie, and the point of the mission was to get people to share, or the way that it works right now is that teams come together and they come up with three actions, good or bad, that members on their team do fairly frequently. 

For example, it could be. They recycle paper, take long showers, sometimes they poop in their compost, and then someone else has to guess which of those things are the lie, right? So originally we did this, we had it as an individual challenge. Everybody had to come up with their truths in a climate lie, and then other teammates had to figure out which one was the lie.

And it was so uncomfortable the minute someone got up in the hot seat and they had their three things like next to their face, and people are silently judging them like, I don't know, do they poop in their compost? It was, you could just see shame. 

Everyone was swimming in it. Even though we set up the mission, the mission was designed to be, the precursor to the driving home the point that nobody is a climate saint. And everybody is on a different part of their climate journey. And the point is not to shame, but instead to figure out how to change our systems. And so the rest of the missions are all about systems change. So this was a very important kind of pivotal moment in the story arc of the game. 

And yet people could not hear that point because they were so busy, just blushing so hard. And so we realized that we had to turn it, we had to do it differently, and instead it was a group challenge. Now it's not just one person being put on display, and we added in some ways to make it a little more lighthearted, but there's, again, there's nuance to setting something like this up and it can go horribly wrong. So we, we've had a lot of lessons along the way.

Molly Wood:
Yeah. I mean, I think it's such a, it's such a real point that when you're having a serious conversation with somebody about climate, they express, you know exactly what you're describing outside of the bounds of a game, which is, I am overwhelmed by the size of this problem. I'm stressed by it. I feel guilty. 

I actually just talked to someone who said, I kind of feel like I'm not even allowed to talk about positive climate action, unless I do all of them. You know, unless I'm doing everything right. I'm a giant hypocrite. I know. And I was like, my God, no. Please just do one thing. Right? Like

Jenny Gottstein:
Totally. It does feel so precarious. So that's why this game exists is to invite people to see that there are so many different ways to plug in. There's no right or wrong way to do it. But the most important thing, and now I'm totally blowing this game, so, um, spoiler alert, but the game, it ends with the number one most impactful climate action we can take. 

And it's joyful activism. That is the grand finale of like, Hey, come to what infuses you with joy and do that. Because if you do that, you will probably keep doing it and you may inspire others in the process. But either way, it's that sustained action with people and community that serves to change systems. 

So it makes me so sad to hear people afraid to even start for fear of messing up. Because there is no wrong way to do this if you're approaching it with a growth mindset, with humility, with curiosity and with hope. So, um, yeah,

Molly Wood:
Yep. I hope, that message gets far and wide.

Molly Wood:
Well, I love the idea of just making it accessible and giving that permission. I mean, I think it's so valuable that we get there in whatever way we can and allow people to have fun with it and laugh about it. It's just such a wonderful, it's such a wonderful concept.

Jenny Gottstein:
Thank you. I can't wait for you to play. It's, uh, it's fun. I put it together. And we have a whole team of game hosts that are running these games for clients around the world. So it's great. You know, I get to the public fundraiser games, but I, we also have folks that are running this, um, you know, shoulder to shoulder.

That's what's so nice about this, this new iteration of the game, is that it's, it's scalable in that way.

Molly Wood:
Do people, um, uh, there's no reason that you should, but do you track impact at all or do you have a sense of how many people have done this or does even anecdotally, does anybody ever write to you and say, you know, now I'm recycling?

Jenny Gottstein:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's funny, um, we are tracking impact in terms of people's reactions to the experience also, um, behavior changes as a result of the game, which obviously is a longer term process. We're working on, on developing the infrastructure to track that over time. But two things anecdotally, that have emerged.

I've heard more than once people say, wow, this is the most fun I've ever had talking about climate change. I take that as a win. And also the bar is quite low, so I'll, you know, take it

Molly Wood:
Right?

Jenny Gottstein:
Usually not that fun.

Molly Wood:
It's pretty much your game and my show. That's the only place that's fun.

Jenny Gottstein:
I mean, for starters, right? We're gonna see it, uh, a tipping point I'm sure of having more fun. We better because we need it. Um, but yeah, so hearing great reactions to the experience itself. And then as far as the longer term impacts, it highly depends on who the game is for. 

So as I mentioned, we run games for clients and usually they're bringing this game in for a team-building experience, a happy hour, maybe it's part of a larger training, organizing around climate commitments or gathering information from employee groups about what they're excited about in terms of shaping their company's climate agenda. 

And for those games, what we're starting to see is at the end, after everyone has brainstormed their ideas, now there's a pool of action items. And so we're starting to see work streams being built around those actions, those joyful actions that people have identified.

When we run the game for the public, we do these public fundraiser games. It's free to attend. Anybody can come as long as you have a browser and headphones and wifi. And if you want to donate, it's pay what you wish. And each game is a fundraiser for a different climate action organization. And after those games, we're starting to see interesting shifts. 

Again, it's anecdotal. It's through our survey at the end, but folks who are saying, oh, you know what? After this game, I went out and bought a compost system for my mom and I, even though our municipality doesn't compost yet, was so inspired by this and have always wanted to try. So now we're trying. 

And meanwhile, we're also hearing folks saying, Hey, as a result of this game, I signed up for a climate training course. I'm really interested in figuring out how to pivot my career or build out new skill sets for the climate economy. It's really exciting to see in these two different ways how the game is impacting people's reactions and future actions.

Molly Wood:
So cool. Okay, so how do people find it?

Jenny Gottstein:
Well, we have all of our information currently on climateactiongameshow.com, and there you will see the link to book for a private group, but then you'll also be able to sign up to be notified when we have upcoming public games.

Molly Wood:
Jenny Gottstein is the creator of the Climate Action Game Show. Thank you so much. I'm gonna book one. I'm gonna book one for my friends.

Jenny Gottstein:
Ah, how fun. I can't wait.

Molly Wood:
Right. It's just gonna be like a little nobody's birthday. Birthday party.

Jenny Gottstein:
Yes, and people get really into it, so be ready for some competitive spirit.

Molly Wood:
I can't wait. Jenny, this is so great. What a wonderful new, again, adoptable, practical, fantastic approach to something that we all wanna talk about but aren't always sure how.

Jenny Gottstein:
Thanks, Molly. It's been a pleasure.

Molly Wood:
And that's it for this episode of Everybody in the Pool. Now I’m kind of wondering … if we should have an online game gathering … right? You and me dear listeners? What do we think? Email me! IN@everybodyinthepool.com … and if you have an unexpected climate solution or an idea for a new job or a tip to share … seriously. I’m reading them all. Keep them coming.

And for a deeper dive and more climate solutions news and information, subscribe to my newsletter at mollywood.co. 

Thanks again to our sponsor, Fennel … and we'll see you next time.